• Registered: 2007-07-08
  • Posts: 790

Topic: 0.08 and Leopard

I've been debating on whether or not to make 0.08 10.5+, (0.07 is guarenteed to be 10.4 compatible, so don't worry about that!)

Keep in mind (if you don't want to switch yet because leopard is still unstable) that 0.08 is _at least_ a few months away. I'd imagine Leopard will have an update or two before then, so I don't think it will be a huge problem.

Some of the nice things that 10.5 brings are not user-facing, but do allow me to write better code quicker. A few things:
* Toolbars are a lot easier to make, so the toolbar based UI will come together a lot quicker.
* Type-ahead select. Leopard supports this natively, that means I can remove a monkeypatching hack I was using to get this working in the file drawer.
* Protocol additions. They now allow the requires, and optional keywords, which will make plugins a lot cleaner.
* Properties and fast enumeration, just a nice thing that will make writing code easier and less tedious.
* Checking the documentation to find that method is 10.5 only and I will need to go through some hoops to get it going in 10.4 has a demotivating effect.

Also, some nice things that will be useful, but likely won't be needed for 0.08:
* Garbage Collection. I have yet to decide if I want to use this in Cog. Usually I only spend a few hours each release hunting down leaks, so I don't think it's a huge problem, but who knows.
* FSEvent. Cog currently uses a third party class that uses kqueues to track file events. Leopard has a new FSEvent API that may be quicker. I haven't looked into this much yet. Tiger's built-in cocoa API for this type of thing missed a lot of events, so I need to look into this a bit further.
* Bundle unloading. This means plugins could be unloaded at runtime. This will definitely be handy once there's a plugins preference pane. Otherwise, you'd just be disabling them and they would still be using up memory.

In the end, it basically makes my life easier, but not really  yours. This is basically an outrage check, so I can see what people think and go from there.

  • remain
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Re: 0.08 and Leopard

  • Registered: 2007-07-19
  • Posts: 77

Re: 0.08 and Leopard

I understand from the above why you'd want to do it, but speaking strictly for myself, I don't expect to switch to Leopard for quite a while (largely because I can't really afford it).  I think in general it's good to wait until a new version of the OS has been out for almost/at least a year before requiring it.  However, more frequent updates are a great thing -- though it'll make me sad not to get to use them!  hmm

  • Registered: 2007-10-29
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Re: 0.08 and Leopard

Last edited by vspader (2007-10-29 11:55:11)

  • Registered: 2007-10-22
  • Posts: 11

Re: 0.08 and Leopard

I

Last edited by nattydraddy (2007-10-29 23:33:07)

  • Registered: 2007-07-08
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Re: 0.08 and Leopard

  • remain
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Re: 0.08 and Leopard

I also disagree that most Cog users are "probably" hardcore geeks that will be getting Leopard ASAP.


How about a compromise: instead of a full year, wait about 6-8 months.

You could leave the features that are difficult to pull off in Tiger for later.

For now, perhaps you could concentrate on the stuff that can easily be done (relatively speaking) in Tiger. Especially the "smaller" features (like remembering the Volume and Drawer status and selected song in playlist between launches and such).

  • Registered: 2007-07-08
  • Posts: 790

Re: 0.08 and Leopard

How's this sound? I'll maintain 10.4 support up to 0.08. It'll likely be 6 months before 0.09 would be released (Assuming 3 months devtime for 0.08, and 3 months devtime for 0.09).

10.5 is going to allow quite a few changes to the plugin system, so I'd like to hold off on messing with that until I'm able to take advantage of that, otherwise I'd just be writing code knowing it's outdated and is going to be replaced, which isn't much fun. All of the current 0.08 stuff is doable without needing to touch Leopard, so I'll do that.

  • Registered: 2007-07-19
  • Posts: 77

Re: 0.08 and Leopard

That seems reasonable.  For those of us who might take a while to make it to Leopard, it would be great (speaking strictly selfishly here) if a lot of the little UI quirks and polishes could be in 0.08, especially stuff related to key commands.  More on that in the Features forum...

Last edited by goldenband (2007-10-30 19:55:03)

  • Registered: 2007-10-31
  • Posts: 21

Re: 0.08 and Leopard

Just wanted to say that I've been using Cog since the very early days and it's been great.  Thanks.

In the next 6 months I think alot of PPC machines are going to be upgraded for their Intel counterparts, which will come with Leopard of course.  In its current version Cog does just about everything the majority of users need, so I would cast my vote to start designing future releases with Leopard in mind.  A year from now you'll be glad you did.

  • Registered: 2007-07-23
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Re: 0.08 and Leopard

  • Registered: 2007-10-31
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Re: 0.08 and Leopard

  • Registered: 2007-07-08
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Re: 0.08 and Leopard

  • vraa
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  • Registered: 2007-07-22
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Re: 0.08 and Leopard

If Apple moved to AMD, I'd cream my pants or something.......
Mmmmmm Quad Socket Quad Core Barcelona mmmmmmmm

  • Registered: 2007-07-23
  • Posts: 86

Re: 0.08 and Leopard

Do not expect it. Intels are now better and, more important, always on schedule. Barcelona has delays Steve won't accept, given what happened with 500 MHz G4, 3 GHz G5.
Simply, forget about AMD.

And I don't think the mini will disappear: many offices wouldn't throw away current lcds to buy imacs.
And many people as well.

  • Registered: 2007-07-19
  • Posts: 77

Re: 0.08 and Leopard

Do I understand correctly that even PPC Macs won't be able to run Classic apps under Leopard?  That's actually a big negative for me, as I still use several Classic apps on occasion (and like to have the option), so I may not ever adopt Leopard until I get a new machine (ha ha).

  • Fuga
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Re: 0.08 and Leopard

  • Registered: 2007-10-20
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Re: 0.08 and Leopard

19 Reply by JW

  • JW
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  • Registered: 2007-11-06
  • Posts: 12

Re: 0.08 and Leopard

How about developing for Leopard from 0.08 on (0.08 including) and having some fork or backport. I suggest to open the SVN of it for the community, so you don't have to backport yourself.
I know some techniques won't be (easily) possible on pre-Leopard OS X. In my oppinion a backport should then do without them. I don't think this will be a big problem since the current version of Cog is - though not perfect - extremely usable already. It is those small imperfections that can - when fixed in a Leopard release - without much effort be implemented in a backport by volunteers.

  • Registered: 2007-11-16
  • Posts: 2

Re: 0.08 and Leopard

Let me start with thanking you for a simple and excellent application!

Now, since 10.5.1 is released I think you should aim for Leopard-only. Embrace the future!

  • From: new york
  • Registered: 2007-07-08
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Re: 0.08 and Leopard

  • vraa
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Re: 0.08 and Leopard

I've got a Yonah and I'm on 10.5.
Major speed ups all across the board, I think it's a well worth upgrade for any x86 user.

  • Registered: 2007-11-16
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Re: 0.08 and Leopard

I've got 10.5 on both my iMac and my iBook G4, and it was a great step forward on both of those machines.

  • Fuga
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  • Registered: 2007-07-08
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Re: 0.08 and Leopard

And the Virtual Memory management is the best reason to upgrade.

  • From: new york
  • Registered: 2007-07-08
  • Posts: 95

Re: 0.08 and Leopard